Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Monsterism #39

Movie: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2
Subject: Tokka

It had to happen eventually. I don't really need to justify my reasoning for including Tokka and the next two monsterisms, although I will say right up front, the first TMNT movie is easily one of the best comic book to film translations of all time, and holds up far better than any of the sequels which, while fun to watch (except Three, which unfortunately remains very painful), don't really hold a match to the original.


Malpractice said...

Turtles 2 isn't fun to watch. If anything it's more painful to watch then 3 which is also a piece of shit lol

The first Turtles movie on the other hand is excellent, and my second favorite comic book to film adaptations (the first being Ghost World).

Andrew J said...

Turtles 1 is way underrated, but I liked 2 enough. Shredder looks badass and the Turtles are all doing their thing. I don't see what the problem is, really. I'd take it over any of the Spider-man movies any day.

But yeah, Turtles 1. Dreamy.

Tristan Jones said...

Gotta disagree with you there Mal, 3 is one of the few films, alongside Dungeons and Dragons and Aliens Vs Predator, that I cannot sit through. I couldn't even make it through the whole thing back in the day. 2 is just a movie of the animated series in my mind, which I think is why I dig it.

Malpractice said...

Turtles 3 was only more watchable then Turtles 2 because it had Elias Koteas back as Casey Jones. I let out a chuckle every now and then during his scenes but other than that yea it was pretty unwatchable (hard to believe that the excellent issue #8 w/ Cerebus was used as inspiration for that pile of garbage of a film).

I also think you pinpointed why i hated Turtles 2 so much, because it was just a movie version of the cartoon. It's also a movie where you can really see that it was a cash grab. Everything from the sets to the costumes to the cast to the script to the way it was shot, was so clearly just a rush job so that they could get the movie out in time so that they could ride the Turtles fad and drain the pockets of it's fanbase while they had the chance.

Andrew J said...

You should try sitting through "Faust: Love of the Damned".

Actually don't I'm saying without hyperbole that it's the worst movie ever made. It isn't even funny-bad. God. I'd watch Aliens vs Predator TWICE before watching that again.

~ tOkKa said...

-->> .. O' beggin' ya pardon, my bloody amigos...

..Respectfully, of coarse.

( The argument for TMNT 3 is a whole other debate i just do not have the energy to divide myself on this fine morn. )

But in the pure sense of fun and camp ..TMNT 2 holds up.

It's isn't as a good as TMNT1 ..


.. it's presents a zany aire to the franchise, and it is one film that has just as many fans as it does it's detractors.

O how i tire of the dynamic of ' BEBOP AND ROCKSTEADY ' vs. " TOKKA and Rahzar " .. the characters cannot substitute for either or or neither. And they ALL are great and unique followers of Shredder.

The lore surrounding TMNT II can be just as geeky, nerdy and amazing as any other of Turtle myths.

- And rumours have proven true. The 'Utrom ' element WAS to be introduced within' this movie.

- Megatron's masterful and legendary voice in the form of Frank Welker was also the vocal element for Tokka & Rahzar.

- The depictions of Tokka and Rahzar were created, yes after the idea to include Bebop and Rocksteady into the films was scrapped.

- R & T's original characteristics in the film were much darker and feral, don't kid yourself.

Had fate gone the other way and parents at the time had no been so demanding of censoring of the second film TMNT 2 could have been much much darker than the final product.

- Tokka in particular is of a darker persuasion anyway since his creation was sprung from concept work and creations of a 1 Stephen R. Bissette ..:: Tyrant , Swamp Thing.


Also .. over time.. the movie has become very psychological and extremely special to me due to the sentiment surrounding it. So .. Turtles 2 is my favourite above all else.

But again that's just mostly me.

..and well .. it goes on from here, but i get accused of 'RAMBLING' so i better stop before my babbling beak get's me in a heap of more trouble.



Tristan Jones said...

That's cool Tok! I know this movie has it's lovers and it's haters! See TMNT 2 is to you what Raiders of the Lost Ark is to me.

My only problem, and this is just me speaking here, is that TMNT 2 doesn't age as well as TMNT 1. TMNT 2 was very much a product of it's time, and while I still have a lot of fun watching it (and love both Tokka and Rahzar) ultimately, that's all it is for me, just a bit of fun. It's kind of like Spiderman and Spiderman 2 -- they're both great, but Spiderman 1 had much greater impact on me because everything was brand new, it wasn't anything I'd seen before. The first time I saw Turtles 1 was the same, and for me, it holds up far better than any of the others.

But I should reiterate that I came at the Turtles through the Mirage books before the cartoon! Because of this, I had exposure to a completely different TMNT to what a lot of others did at first. Many love TMNT 2 because it was more in line with the cartoons they grew up on - I loved TMNT 1 because it was more in line with the Turtles I grew up on. I still watched the cartoons and enjoyed them, but the comics came first for me. It's kind of like how the first James Bond you see is often your favourite (Dalton for me).

~ tOkKa said...

-->> touché !!

Excellent points.. i like that.

I think i kinda take all this at an angle. ( That's prolly sometimes, over the years i've accidentaly upset some fans. It's never been my intention i'm just so easily misunderstood. ).

It's hard to say where Turtles began for me. Yeh the comics, but more so first the Archie books & toon then the Mirage books and lastly. Tho' i recall trips eons ago when i was smaller to the comic shops and and seeing TMNT Mirage comics on the stands. Really hard to tell where the exposure started.

The movies ( all 4 ) in particular are surrounded by extremley sentimental moments. And to the geeks' defence that may be more why i am so pro-bono about all 4 for what they are worth. Each is very special in it's own right. Some of those memories also are intertwined with loved ones that are no longer here.

Sentimentality.. it's a killer.

Again, because i am open to so many diff' interpretations of the Guys.. i think that's why people think i'm so strange.

It's variations on theme and i've appreciated that my whole life, in stories, art, movies, video games, music, ect. .. ..it's just how my mind and heart work i guess.

It's interesting ..your points.

Spider-man .. the first movie was meh .. didn't for reason click to me. I thought i'd hate the second one, **BOOM i was wrong. I thought it was pretty incredible. I 'm glad i was wrong to myself.
I am totally obsessed with the late 1970s Roichi Ikagami Spider-man mangas and the zany Toei Live=action Spider-man tokusatsu show.

Love Indy films ..even more so .. i adore the Young Indiana Jones Chronicals with Sean Patrick Flanery ( Boondock Saints ).

And back to your defence.. and the main topic.

TMNT 1 is classic, and i consider whole within itself and very important.

The fact that TMNT 2 is dated, i told Dan Berger years ago..that it kinda compared to the 1960s Adam West BatMan. Obviously that show is so dated and campy..

it's due to those facts that makes it such a fun show and makes it so special even to this day.

I'm a pop-culture sponge and on continual overload.

I cannot always explain, justify , or even understand my mind and why i like what i like.

i just hope , in the end.. people will understand and trust that i can respect their opinions..even if we disagree.

I may be crazy .. but do have some civility , especially in all things nerdy.

Well least i try.

Oy.. !!

Hell you seem like a cool guy to go graba pint with..heh.


StanC said...

I haven't seen the Young Indy Chronicles since they first hit TV here years ago! I've just picked up the DVD's, so once I get back into the habit of exercise they'll be on my Bike-watch program (wherein I jump on the ex.bike and watch episodes while I sweat it out!)!

I'm pretty sure everyone understands each other in the fanbase. I know heaps of people who like 2 for the exact same reasons you just mentioned!

I like pints too! If you're at SDCC next year and I've got some spare clockticks a pint might be an idea! A friend of mine is getting married over that way at around the same time, so I'm hoping to tie the trip for the marriage in with the con - fingers crossed that Pete and the other Mirage guys will be there!

~ tOkKa said...

-->> ..it's a deal Stan.. i'll be in San D this year and next ( cross claws for a Mirage appearence ).

Think there's plenty of room in the Turtles pantheon for some campiness and some crazy fun.

I.E. .. if you havn't had the chance , read the runs,specials, and even the Archie Special on TMNT v. 1 by Hedden and McWeeny. They'll blow your mind and are some of the most insane Turtles stories ever created.


Tristan Jones said...

I'm definitely up for beers with ANY one Tok! I'll be at SDCC next year hopefully! If there's a Mirage booth I'll be scrimpin' and savin' again! Hopefully I'll have some more Tales under my belt!

~ tOkKa said...

-->> ..

>:D !!